“During dinner last Friday this subject came up and as far as I know you are the only person who might be able to give me some insight on my situation.
When out to eat I find that often there will be main entrees that I would really like to try, but perhaps the side dishes are something I don’t like. So the “ginger pork loin” (hypothetical) looks fabulous, but I’m really not into the Asian cole slaw (just don’t get into the slaw thing unless its w/BBQ…I guess it’s just a southern thing) So I end up ordering something completely different that I wasn’t looking forward to as much as the pork. I actually don’t even bother to order dishes because a side is not appealing. I feel that if I were to request a different side dish it would be insulting to the chef, but I’m not willing to order something knowing that I’m likely to leave so much food on the plate. I guess my quandary is that I actually respect the chefs in the restaurants I go to. I feel like asking them to substitute a side is equal to someone looking at my artwork and saying “I really like this one, but could you put more red instead of blue so it will match my couch….” see, it’s insulting. I know that a chef plans the whole plate, entree and sides, to combine together to create an entire taste experience.
But some things (there are few, I’m really not a picky eater, I swear), I just don’t enjoy eating. So what to do? Eat only what I want and leave the rest, avoid the entree altogether, or ask for a substitute?
Any thoughts?”
I know there are lots of chefs reading this site. I hope a few weigh in on this issue.
Marshall Manning says
No chef here, but I don’t see any problem with asking for a separate side dish. Some will accomodate and some won’t, but you can always ask to see what they say. If they say “No substitutions,”, just tell them you’re allergic to something in the side dish ;-).
Next time I go to Gotham I’ll have to ask for a different side dish…not a specific one, just a GOOD one, as they were all mediocre to awful when we went.
Betsy says
I think it’s all in the way you ask.
But if you really don’t care for something, your server, for one, should be your advocate here. Enroll them by saying something along the lines of what you said above – “I know that the side’s designed to go with the entree, but I really don’t care for cabbage. Could I please request something else instead, as the pork just sounds like it’s a don’t miss to me…”
mczlaw says
By contrast, you probably should not say (especially if you’ve made the server wait while you finished your cell phone conversation): “Cole slaw sucks and it has no business on the same plate as the pork. Was the chef sniffing glue when he came up with this idea? I want someting else with my pig. How ’bout the lobster croquettes? But I’m not paying extra. And hustle would ya, I got a meeting in a half hour.”
If, by some miracle, the flaming asshole approach works, be sure and check carefully under the croquettes for special gifts from the kitchen.
Seriously, ask for whatever you want, within reason, just do so politely. It’s amazing how well “please” and “thank you” can work. It’s equally amazing how many folks don’t get this.
–mcz
kelly says
mczlaw,
#1 – I despise the use of cell phones in a publc space, and always make sure mine is in the “off” or “left in the car” position when I go out to eat, so being courteous and respectful to the server is not a problem…I’ve served enough jerks in my time to know how not to be one.
But even still, if you’ve labored to conceive a distinct combination you might think its insulting even if the person requested it nicely.
girl_cook says
DO NOT TELL A SERVER YOU ARE ALLERGIC TO SOMETHING WHEN YOU ARE NOT.
That being said…
To a certain extent it’s in the way you ask, to a certain extent it’s what you want to sub. There are too many people that see “mashed potatoes” on something and think it is a good substitution for everything. Like razor clams.
At the restaurant where I work, the menu says ‘no substitutions’ but we do make exceptions and usually tell the servers at menu meeting what can or cannot be subbed and what what we can or cannot do sides of. My boss has also gone out to tables and talked to them to ask what they don’t like and came up with something that pleased them and still ‘matched’ the rest of the plate.
Restaurateur says
Keep in mind that in certain restaurants, if the dish was carefully elaborated and constructed, substitutions on the “side” not only throw off flavors, but also presentation. A chef may not be pleased to send out something that does not reflect well on the plate or on the House. On the other hand failure to accommodate a guest request can reflect poorly on the House too.
As a restaurant operator I tend to agree with the majority opinion: ask nicely. Requests are dealt on case-by-case in small restaurants and often they are reasonable.
In any case, DO NOT TELL YOUR SERVER YOU ARE ALLERGIC TO SOMETHING WHEN YOU ARE NOT!
Food Dude says
People that leave cellphone ringers on in restaurants should be deep fried and served as a special.
You have raised a good question. Most Chef’s do look at a plate as an ‘art piece’. That is why some places have a ‘no substitutions’ rule. Many chefs however, realize that some people just don’t like certain things, and will do their best to accommodate them.
Since most of the time I am reviewing, I eat the dish as the chef intends. If I’m just out to dinner, I tend to pick another entrée, or if it is something I really want, I’d feel out the server and see if it would
be a problem. I’ve found if you approach it from the angle of “I really would like to get the Salmon but I just can’t deal with another potato this week… What do you think?”, the server will let you know if they have something to substitute.
Apollo says
I tend to eat it the way the chef intends. If I don’t like the sides I will get something else. I live in a simple world…
Zeus says
Apollo/Zeus. . .get it? Ha ha.
Oh mighty one: I too order as god. . .er, the chef intended. If I want a dish my way, I’ll make it at home. I’ll break my own rule once in a great while for a dessert if I prefer one type of ice cream to the one intended to accompany the dessert item I have ordered. What the hell, most pastry chefs don’t work dinner, so you can’t insult ’em if they aren’t around ;-). Plus, in making the request, I grovel obsequiously to emphasize my respect for chef’s intended artistry.
Speaking of Wildwood :-), if you want to hear bizarre special requests, sit at the service counter some night, especially on Sunday. Goddam if someone the other night didn’t ask that their entree be prepared without any salt. Another, in which the side included pancetta, asked that the meat be segregated (not excluded, as for a veg head, but served separately). The variations requested on the “see server” tickets are endless and often hysterical. Amazingly, the folks on the line handle it all with equanimity, save only for the occasional eye roll.
Cellphones: the bane of 21st century existence, along with SUVs and unused turn signals. I rarely turn my phone on and never have set up the voicemail feature, to the chagrin of my more heavily wired compadres. We could all honor a higher good by grabbing them away from public venue users and disposing of them, preferably with the aid of a hammer. Restaurant use is really annoying, especially the shouters. More amusing, but pathetic, are those who use them in the john. It must take formidable skill to yammer whilst sitting on the crapper (and vice versa). Ewwwww!!!.
–mcz
Kelly (not the Kelly above) says
Kudos to all who had thoughtful explainations of a request. Having worked in restaurants, a gracious request is almost always accepted (only when something must be prepped in advance and finished to order is this not truly possible (e.g. a 8 hour braise, with a request to “please make it without the pancetta” isn’t going to work).
I strongly concur with previous opinions regarding truthfullness with allergies. For every diner that says they’re allergic to dairy (“so please don’t use any butter in the sauce”) and then turns around and orders a non-fat latte – this behavior only hurts those that truly do have allergies as servers and chefs slowly become indifferent due to all those that “cry wolf.”
Be honest, say you don’t like it, don’t want it, ask for an alternative, but don’t say you’re allergic to it – please. And yes, I have an allergy – to hazlenuts. I know the word in several different languages (filbert, noisette, nocciola, etc.) and I carry an epi-pen. Before I order, I quietly say to the server “I have a hazelnut allergy, would you let me know if anything I order might have nuts in it? Thank you so much…”
(p.s. the “no dairy” request to get out of having butter is ubiquitous and is a sure eye-roller; just ask if it can be made with olive oil or stay home and have an egg white omlet!)
just me says
Zeus said,
“Another, in which the side included pancetta, asked that the meat be segregated (not excluded, as for a veg head, but served separately).”
The diner may have been Jewish. There are many Jewish dietary laws that are followed to varying degrees depending on the person. Just to give one example…
From http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm
“In addition, the Talmud prohibits cooking meat and fish together or serving them on the same plates, because it is considered to be unhealthy.”
just me says
To be clear, I think it is a fair request.
Marshall Manning says
Cook/Kelly, my comment about allergies was meant as a joke, that’s what the “;-)” after it means.
Jessica says
just me said,
“Zeus said,
“Another, in which the side included pancetta, asked that the meat be segregated (not excluded, as for a veg head, but served separately).”
The diner may have been Jewish. There are many Jewish dietary laws that are followed to varying degrees depending on the person. Just to give one example…”
If a Jew is strict enough to be segregating their meat from everything else, they’re probably not eating pancetta – it’s pork.
just me says
True. Maybe they weren’t Jewish. Either way, we all have what seem like weird food quirks to others that could lead to seemingly unreasonable requests when we dine out. Asking for a dish to be served separately seems like a reasonable request to me. Just as it is reasonable to tip a bit more when such requests are met.
mczlaw says
kelly not kelly: Nice to see you recognize that “filbert” is oregonian for “hazelnut” ;-) Never heard of a hazelnut ’til all the durn fureners moved up here.
just me: I’m sure my meshpucha are as guilty as any about making special requests. My dad must drive every server and cook insane with his various requests and specifications (not to mention those generous 12% tips. . .arrgh!!!). Then there’s my friend Dave who invariably pulls the sauce on the side trick after playing grand inquisitor regarding at least half the menu items. The point is that it’s all a matter of degree.
What special requesters need to understand is that, in addition to being polite when requesting, they shouldn’t pop a vein if the kitchen says “no.” The menu was not constructed to suit their special desires and if customization is so important, EAT AT HOME.
And justified or not, I can still laugh about it if a request seems especially dopey to me.
–mcz