I’ve been waiting for push-back against Portland food carts, and it sounds like a groundswell is building
From the EnzymePDX website (rip),
There are currently 534 licensed food carts in Multnomah County, with applications for 82 more under planned review. Even John Hamilton, vice president of communications for the restaurant lobbying group the Oregon Restaurant and Lodging Association, admits that Portland has surpassed other major cities as the No.1 spot for food carts in the country.
…
In terms of sanitation and how the food is handled, the carts are held to the same standards as restaurants and receive twice-yearly inspections, according to the Multnomah County Health Department. But other costly requirements that apply to restaurants, such as maintaining plumbing for an on-site restroom and a three-sink hand washing facility, do not pertain to carts. Kirchmeier wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with that, if most Portland mobile food units would actually live up to their name. The county health department necessitates that all carts must have the ability to move at all hours of operation, but they are not obligated to relocate from one place to another at any specific intervals.
Hamilton agrees that there is an inconsistency with how these rules are applied. He says Oregon Restaurant and Lodging Association is working with the county health department and the Oregon Department of Human Services to review food standards and may look specifically at Portland food cart regulations beginning in September.
What do you think? Do food cart regulations allow food carts to compete unfairly with restaurants?
Skylor says
I feel that food carts and restaurants are in 2 different categories. I would never go to a food cart with the intention of using a bathroom or to wash my hands, so I don’t see the problem in them not having a restroom. The necessity is that a food cart can move, but that doesn’t mean that it must, or that is what it sounds like the regulations are stating. I think food carts are doing a great job, keep it up!
JasonC says
I don’t think the health department cares whether you wash YOUR hands. That’s up to you.
Me says
I would never go to a food cart with the intention of using a bathroom or to wash my hands.
Your mommy told you to wash your hands before and after diner??
JasonC says
Triple sinks are not for handwashing, they are for dishes and cookware. There’s no way hand-washing stations aren’t required in all trucks. Where I currently live (Missoula) triple-sinks are too.
extramsg says
An article on a blog that only has one comment based on complaints from a restaurant association and a failed restaurateur each with their own axes to grind is what we’re defining as a “groundswell” of sentiment now? How is this any different from the efforts the ORA and the Greek Cucina douchenozzle in years past?
L'epicier says
I agree Extra MSG – Greek Cusina and ORA both douches. However I prefer to cast my economic voye and generally not patronize carts. Scary food and suspect cleanliness. I’m sure they’re not all bad but some are very fusty looking.
John J. Goddard says
It sounds more like sour grapes on the part of a guy who failed to make a memorable mark in an industry he has little experience in. I’d never heard of the Krakow Cafe before today. Dude, we see, everywhere, ill-conceived mom-and-pop forays into the food service industry by people who have no experience, underdeveloped palates and little to no competitive cooking skills or special knowledge. There seems to be this weird notion everywhere that since strip malls exist, anyone can open a cafe, serve unmemorable food, and succeed, simply because the world is full of other people with similarly underdeveloped palates and experience who don’t know better. It’s not prudent to make too many assumptions when entering an industry new to you. I don’t know what kind of research Kirchmeier did, and I am sorry for his lack of success… but did he hire anyone with experience in starting, developing and marketing a successful deli/cafe?
As for too many food carts or unfair competition: Come on! This is like the record industry whining about mp3’s and the internet. It makes as much sense to tell teenagers to quit starting bands and leave music making up to “fully licensed professionals”.
benschon says
Motor scooters are not required to have seat belts or air bags. Cars are. Therefore government is allowing scooter manufacturers to “compete unfairly” with car makers. General Motors failed because of predatory, not-regulated-enough scooter companies.
Honestly.
L'epicier says
Dude GM is baaaack! (at leaast that’s what I hear; I’m still not buying one)
TK says
I’m a big food cart supporter. My heart says “Leave the food carts alone!” but I think the restaurants’ complaints aren’t entirely without merit. Carts and restaurants are indeed competitors (‘substitute goods’ in economic terms) and the government is forcing restaurants to incur costs that some of their competitors aren’t. It will be interesting to see how this develops.
CO says
the issues I have with food carts are, Equality in inspection protocol and price creep.
on inspection protocol, I do not see why carts get a pass/fail and brick&mortar(BM) get a 0-100 score. This leads to nothing but confusion and sensationalism. Anyone wanna venture a guess why we don’t see “Dirty Dining” and the rest of their ilk, ambushing carts? well, it’s because most of those hit pieces are aimed at the barely passing places….the places getting a 70 or 71. It’s_impossible to tell if a cart got a 100 or a 70. The only(somewhat) leveling of the field is the fact that a BM can get a critical violation and correct it while staying open. A cart is shut down immediately. Still, I do not get why the inspection process cannot be unified in some manner.
As far as price creep goes, I think we are going to start seeing push back based on the fact that cart prices are approaching BM prices. Lots of reasons for this. I think but the biggest two seem to be landlords that are riding the hype(good on them….go capitalism! something is ‘worth” exactly what I can sell it for…) and charging exorbitant rents and starry eyed cart owners seeing other purveyors selling similar items around town for a few cents more and matching it. It does and has(from what I can see)this spiral inflation where every mediocre/average sandwich or taco plate from a cart costs $8 or more. You know what I can get for that much money a lot of the time? A bathroom, a server and a warm place to sit and eat it. Oh yeah, and damn beer.
There will be a contraction, the odds are roughly 100%.
L'epicier says
Right on CO
pdxyogi says
A) This is not a chat room.
B) Put down the bong.
Melissa says
A) I don’t know what you’re talking about (bong?);
B) CO makes excellent points.
pdxyogi says
[The above was a response to L’epicier’s multiple chatroom-style comments.]
L'epicier says
It’s not a chat room? And it’s called a vaporizer pdxyogi!
John J. Goddard says
I wasn’t privy to the livelyship of portlandfoodanddrinkle.com ‘tul now anna here, wher’ this one thread’s. ‘Em internets is big and full o’ wonders heretofore unbeknownst to the like of this kitty liquor. An’ a whar thrum’s all this “chaht room ruhploi” callin’ oot shenannery? Iver’ last whinna yer replies is as whalcome in me own e-dra’r as the one afore it, an’ dat’s nootsa whalcome ‘tall.
Kelley Roy says
We just finished writing a book about the Portland Food Cart phenomenon called CARTopia: Portland’s Food Cart Revolution portlandfoodcartsbook.com Many of the cart owners we talked to used to work in the restaurant industry where upward mobility and an opportunity to share their talents is simply not available. In addition, many cart owners are immigrants who are simply trying to make a living. With our economy in the crapper, food carts provide a great opportunity for people to own their own business AND be creative AND pay their bills. The food carts obviously fill a niche that restaurants do not, and diversity in everything is generally a good thing (nature, our economy, etc). Without too many jobs to speak of out their in Portland, I do not think we should limit people’s access to starting businesses. Food carts are a great example of Portland’s do it yourself, entrepreneurial, hard working, creative spirit. We should be supporting more of this, not less. We are creating a new economic model in Portland that bucks the exclusive, big business approach, and the nation is watching. Let’s not ruin this opportunity to give as many people as possible access to economic opportunity.
Kelley Roy
sassafraspdx.com
Tommy says
I agree with your point about the lower barrier to entry, but I wouldn’t necessarily go so far as to say “we are creating a new economic model in Portland…” As Steve points out below, by way of David Bragdon, the small/mobile model is already the norm in much of the third world.
Jason Britsas says
Obviously I have a bias toward the food cart nation. That being said, I have been in the industry for 15+years. As a chef you never get to meet your customers(audience)being stuck in some hole of a kitchen. The carts allow the food artist to have a venue. Restaurants are missing the opportunity to expand their presence by not getting in the game. Sour grapes all the way!!!
And by the way, drive thru restaurants don’t allow you to wash your hands from the car. You can drop that lame excuse!!
Tom Gibson says
What is unfair about competition? That is a non-sequiter.
rebecca says
Many carts charge almost as much as a restaurant.
snowyaker says
Then don’t eat there.
rebecca says
I usually don’t. This discussion is about competition and when the prices are the same as restaurants, they aren’t as competitive. I should have broken that down for you in my first post, snowyaker. Please accept my apologies.
Brooke says
Couldn’t you make a number of arguments about “unfair competition?” I think it’s unfair that restaurants choose to serve sub-par food that they get for super cheap, but I just choose not to eat at those places. Food carts are clearly just a reaction to a struggling economy. I appreciate having so many great places to choose from that offer a lower price point than many of my favorite restaurants.
Steve says
David Bragdon pointed out the other day that food carts are what they have in third-world countries where no one can afford to eat in restaurants. As (or if) the economy improves, I bet the number of food carts will thin out considerably as both operators and customers move up to real restaurants. (And the same thing will happen if they start raising their prices to restaurant levels.)
Doc Brown says
It is, no doubt, government’s responsibility to ensure that food carts and restaurants alike adhere to all food safety standards and do not pose a nuisance or threat to people, place, environment, economy, etc …
The food cart scene in Portland is part reaction to a challenging economic climate, part reflection of Portland food culture (embodying, of course, the independent entrepreneurial spirit and the sentiment of connection to our communities that help make Portland the town it is), and part “urban Taoism” as Portland Monthly has recently described it.
Should food carts be subject to the same regulations as restaurants? Well, food carts aren’t restaurants – so no they should not. Though food carts, like any business selling food and/or drink to the public, should be regulated so that the health and well being of people (customers, workers, pedestrians), place, environment, etc … are not deleteriously affected.
Unfair for restaurant owners? No way. Perhaps someone might call Mr. Hamilton (and others that feel this way) a waambulence. If you don’t want the responsibility and accountability that comes with owning a brick and mortar restaurant, perhaps you might consider opening a food cart! From what I hear, the overhead is considerably lower, by comparison.
Tommy says
“Urban Taoism”??? Did they really print that? Somebody needs to put Portland Monthly into a rocket ship bound for the center of the sun…
Fat Milo's Mom says
I own a restaurant, & I don’t have a problem with food carts. I wish I had more time to visit them, but, alas, I own a restaurant! What does get to me, though, is the whole commercial prep kitchen issue. Soon we can call it the “lemonade stand girl dilemma”. Do all of these carts prepare their food on site? Do they do any prep in an unlicensed kitchen, or do they maintain or share a commercial kitchen? Do they pay the license fees that restaurants do to maintain these kitchens? As for the 3 compartment thing-I find it odd that a “temporary restaurant” license, one for say a festival, has to have a 3 container system on site for washing dishes, but not a food cart. I know the reason these temporary food stands are required to have them is because most of them do not have a commercial kitchen they operate out of, so they don’t have a commercial machine to wash them in or a 3 compartment sink either. That being said, they also have to prepare all food on site. If a brick & mortar restaurant has a temp set up at a festival they aren’t required to prepare all food on site nor do they have to have a 3 container washing system. So, what is the deal with a food cart? Do they all have to maintain a licensed kitchen somewhere that they wash their dishes at, or do they not have to comply with the same rules that “temporary restaurants” do? This is also a concern of mine when dealing with caterers that don’t maintain a commercial kitchen…
esclavo supremo says
I have to pay a slave tax, so they should, too!!
mzwong says
Every cart that I know of rents space in a commercial kitchen and does all of the prep, cooking and clean up there. That may not be the case for every cart, but that’s what I’ve come across when I ask. Feel free to ask your favorite carts what their set up is!
Unlike restaurants, where you can’t go into the kitchen and see how unsanitary it might be, you can generally see right into a cart. You can see if it seems clean inside and you can talk to the proprietor. Instead of wondering and assuming the worst, just try asking.
I don’t think that carts compete with restaurants. If I want to go to a restaurant I will. If I want to eat at a cart I will. Different things.
I agree with the price creep. I generally just don’t have enough cash on me to pay for a couple of $8+ entrees at a cart.
Fat Milo's Mom says
I hate to say this, people, but there seems to be some flaws in logic here… “you can see into a cart” as a way to tell if it’s clean? “That truck doesn’t LOOK like it has salmonella” is the same as “That girl doesn’t LOOK like she has AIDS.”
mzwong says
Well, as much as you can tell anything. I think it’s better than people assuming that carts are “roach coaches” and filthy with no actual knowledge about it.
My point is that people are assuming that restaurants are sanitary without any direct knowledge, either, so why not give a cart that same benefit of doubt? Or assume that restaurants are all crawling with rats, too?
Carts are regulated and inspected, just as restaurants are.
Doc Brown says
This could be the worst analogy I’ve read in a long time (from Fat Milo’s Mom). Watching someone prepare your food makes the preparer responsible and accountable in a way that private kitchens (where the customer cannot view food production and prep) are not – there is a level of transparency in food carts that does not exist in most restaurants. And, this transparency leads to a different type of accountability. Perhaps and accountability with different standards of quality.
Further, many of the people cooking in food carts are also the business owners (not a hired hand). They have vested interest in their food cart business which also heightens their sense of responsibility. Again, a qualitative difference.
Of course no person could “see” a food born illness with the naked eye – regardless of the setting. Duh.
A 2008 report by the Urban Vitality Group suggests that, for health codes and standards, food carts are regulated “the same” as any business selling food – and, in fact, food carts overall might score better in the eyes of county inspectors. See here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17048857/Portland-Food-Cartology-Report
L'epicier says
Remember the days when the only carts served espresso? Twenty years ago they were all the rage, but how many are left? I predict a shakeout of carts, followed by more quality, better ingredients and yes even higher sanitation standards, as once again capitalism proves that survival of the fittest is real.
grapedog says
I really hope we all acknowledge that this issue is really not just about restaurants vs food carts. It’s restaurants vs everyone else who is cooking food for people. Sure, we have a ton of food carts but we also have caterers, private chefs, winery cooks, party cooks and people who sell seats to stealth home dinners. Remember how clarklewis/ripe started? Dinners at someone’s house?
As people have pointed out, you go to a food cart when you feel like eating “al fresco”. You go to a restaurant when you feel like having a meal with full service. You can attend various events where food is served. You can have your own cook at home if you like. It’s all the business of making food for people to eat and IMHO there is a lot of space for all of us, even the 7/11 that serves nachos with that “cheese” liquid on the chips. Ugh.
dieselboi says
One thing not pointed out in the original article is that Krakow owner Mark Kirchmeier is opening a food cart. In his press release about the closing early in August, he stated they planned on opening a new cart on NE 16th and Killingsworth. https://portlandfoodanddrink.com/2010/07/31/krakow-cafe-closing-opening-cart/
I just find it odd that the reporter didn’t point this out. hmmm.
Food Dude says
Actually, he starts the article with that fact.
dieselboi says
I just re-read the Enzyme article and it doesn’t state anything about Kirshmeier opening a cart. Am I missing it?
Food Dude says
It’s on page 2
Food Dude says
see below – although the story appears to have been edited early this morning, and it seems like they mentioned that more prominently before. Might just be bad recall on my part.
MJ says
I live in Minneapolis, where over-regualtion and paranoia is holding back a chomping-at-the bit-food cart scene. Bottom line- the PDX restaurant scene is not suffering because of food carts, just the opposite. Food carts create a culture of creativity and constant fresh air, and pushes the culinary scene in general. They are part and parcle of why Portland is such an exciting place to eat, indoors or out!
John J. Goddard says
Well, me, I missed the other article too, so bully for Kirchmeier’s flexibility. But I don’t want to hear about the “under-regulation” of food carts anymore. You can see into a food cart, be aware of what’s happening and who’s doing it under what conditions. If you need someone regulating simple choices like whether or not to eat what’s plainly prepared before you, then I wish you’d stop taking air, water and sustenance away from the rest of us.
Good Food For Me says
I hope that the food carts are held to the same standards as restaurants – and yes they should have a 3 compartment sink and adhere to the same rules as “caterers.” Really they are almost the same as caterers who have parties outdoors and are cooking under tents and bringing food prepped in a “commercial kitchen.” I’m not sure anyone knows this except those who have seen it, but PDX has a large and very real rat problem. I’ve personally seen rats running underneath the food carts at night and they didn’t appear to be working in the kitchens like on Ratatouille! It’s gross.
sabernar says
“Many carts charge almost as much as a restaurant.”
Which food carts are you visiting? And which restaurants? I’d love to get lunch at a restaurant for $6 and under, $7 tops. And have under a 5 minute wait to get my food. The only time I get a cart lunch for over $7 is when I’m purchasing multiple items (pad thai & spring rolls, for example, which is pretty rare).
Rebecca says
You can get lunch specials for under $7 that include tea, roll, soup at many Asian places.
sabernar says
And I can get a huge lunch for $5 at Huong’s Vietnamese cart.
Rick Hamell says
Glad to know that my under $8 choices for lunch are limited to fast food and Asian foods.
I’ll stick with the food carts. They biggest advantage that they still have over most other places (in my opinion,) is the huge amount of variety in a single pod and the quick service compared to any sit down place. (Fast food doesn’t even register on my radar accept in an emergency.)
JasonC says
It’s not like there aren’t standards and regulations. They are just different, and there are several tiers.
http://www.mchealthinspect.org/mfu.html
Jeff Shultz says
I was at a week long conference last January at the Embassy Suites and I definitely enjoyed (for lunch) the variety of food that was quickly available from from the food carts across the street from the Hotel. The B&M’s… benefited from me during the dinner hour.
The carts offer a food variety at a reasonable price that could not be matched – due to space and rent realities – by B&M restaurants – you simply could not fit that many B&M restaurants in the downtown area and have them survive at the level the food carts have. The food cart clusters are basically building-less food courts without the mall rents.
John E says
If people start getting sick at carts, regulations will arrive. Obviously not happening.
Last time I got sick from food it was a brick and mortar brewpub on Mississippi, where the cook takes the trash can out and then picks up your burger. So I like the carts, but when the bad weather comes I think we’ll lose half.
The Dreamers Market on MLK, near me, has great stuff (whatta roast beef sandwich!) and no customers to speak of.
MyNextMeal says
Regulations are about safety – not competition. At least it should be in this case.
Food carts are at a distinct disadvantage (in my book) when the rain arrives. How unfair!
uzideth says
I’m calling it…winter 2010/11 is Food Cart Thunderdome! Only the strong will survive!
The rainy season is really going to hit the food cart scene. There’s just so many, and so many mediocre ones. Sure, low overhead is great, but it can get SLOW in the winter, even for the best places, cart or bricknmortar.
Food carts are a good idea and some of them have great food and good prices and good locations. They’ll be fine. But there’s plenty out there just surfing the trend.
Portland Food Adventures says
I think we’re in an age where much of the regulation takes care of itself. If a food cart is either unsanitary or has less than adequate food, usually that will make its way to the internets fast enough to either fix the problem, or let the market vote on a food cart’s viability (or any restaurant, for that matter). Survival of the fittest. (That has nothing to do with my waistline after having had an incredible pork sandwich at The People’s Pig. Or maybe it does.)
Garden State says
Why doesn’t the ORA seek membership from any carts? I’m going to join. And then I’m going to tell them they’re nuts. Why alienate a segment of the industry that seem to growing very rapidly, nationwide?
Jason Britsas says
Let me know when you’re going Kevin. I will join you. They are nuts and they don’t know what food is. Hey ORA why not open another crappy fast food spot??? That’s greeaat for the industry.
Dave Bertelo says
I don’t know if the rules have changed since I was doing food carts but… I had to have a 3 compartment sink, a handwashimg sink for staff ,and prove that all food was cooked on site or in a licensed kitchen. It was no different then a brick and mortar restaurant.
As for bathrooms… That isn’t part of a kitchen b&m or carts.
As for unfair competition… I think PDX does it right. The carts are mostly on their own spot and the ones that are on the move act as good neighbors the b&m restaurants. If you read about the LA food cart problems, I understand PO’d restaurant owners. Those carts will pull up right before lunch in front of the building and block guest. If I was paying $10k a month or more and three food trucks pull up and park in front all day I’d loose my cool!
Garden State says
Why isn’t the ORLA reaching out to the cart owners? I think I’ll join, just to tell them they are nuts. Carts and mobile trucks are a segment of the industry that seems to be growing quickly, and nation-wide. They want to alienate this segment?
Aside from that, some of the information here is plain wrong. We are already required to have 3-compartment sinks and a separate hand-washing sink. We (at least at Mississippi Marketplace, which was specifically named in the article) have to have portable restrooms, with hot water hand-washing capability. It is not cheap to pay the licensed companies who maintain them.
There are all kinds of costs associated with both sides of the street here, but I think all this talk of advantages boils down to a few things. Carts require much less to start up and get going, but they require much the same to run. There is less risk there, and the kitchen goes with you if you fail. But the winter weather is a serious bummer, especially if you want to hang on to your staff that you needed in the summer. And booze. Carts can’t serve it, restaurants can. Hell, an OLCC license is less expensive than my County Health license, and there’s a much bigger markup there. How about video poker?
You can bet I’ll be contacting the guy that beat Kirchmeier for State Representative, since the ORLA apparently doesn’t serve me.
Fat Milo's Mom says
Thanks for the clarification on the 3 compartment sinks, Garden State. That makes more sense. Seems like you should be able to sell beer at carts, I agree, but the regulations are such that you can’t walk out in “public” with an open alcoholic drink, right? Can’t carts get a license to sell liquor as a retail establishment? Interesting thought…
far away says
supply and demand, these carts provide a service at half the price as restaurants there are advantages and disadvantages the fact is that this is a perfect example of free market economics. Now, some one throw a fit and get some ridiculous regulations passed so it puts em all out of business. thats the american way!
fair or unfair people like it the food is good and the price is right.
Amoureuse says
Love the good carts. I grew up on “dirty water Sabrets”, “sovlaki” , and “pretzels” . Like restaurants there are some good ones and bad ones. I do think the carts need to be better about where they and their guests throw away their waste/garbage. If you look along Alder Street, or tenth Avenue the garbage problem is a real issue. aside from the horrible visual, there had to be rodent issues at night? Restaurants cant throw waste into city trash bins, they would be fined. The cart owners should not be allowed either. Also restaurants must pay for side walk seating permits, and have rules for “right of way” and handicap access. If you walk Alder or Tenth, there is no clear path for peditrians or handi-cap.
Also if you get cart food dont bring that food to another restaurant and eat at their table. I witnessed somebody bringing in a burrito to Kenny and Zukes, when asked to leave ( did not buy a drink, only wanted water and a napkin ) they were offended – are you kidding me?????
But the carts are great. They just need to remember that Portland is a clean city.
chefken says
God…Thank you! Latest problem we’re dealing with is people bringing in Lattes because we only have regular Stumptown coffee. Give me a break! We used to tell them they couldn’t bring it in, but they got pissed off. Now we charge them .75
chefken says
I love the carts! There are some great ones, which do really well. And some which suck, which don’t seem that busy. If a restaurant is doing things right and giving their customers what they want, they have little to worry about from carts. If they aren’t, don’t blame the carts…Do things better.
And there are just as many or more restaurants with iffy cleanliness standard as carts. Just because they get inspected 2X per year doesn’t mean they’re thoroughly clean. And I think most homes are generally worse than most restaurants and carts.
Besides, as a matter of principle, if the ORA is against something, I’m for it, and vice versa. Douches!
pastamaven says
Kudos to Ken on the ORA. As far as I’m concerned, the Chris Dudley endorsement is the last straw.
L'epicier says
I’ve never even joined the ORA because they are so right wing!
Joisey says
Right Wing! The Horror!