I really wasn’t going to say anything. It seems to me they have been given enough publicity. Then someone pointed out they need a break from the tragedy going on in the South. Six other readers emailed similar thoughts. So, with a few accompanying comments from your editor, here is part of the latest publicity email from (you guessed it) — Ripe/Gotham.
Occasional essays will be appearing on tables at clarklewis, gbt, and family supper. Our writer in residence, Matthew Stadler, is writing them. Pete McCracken, at Crack Press, will letterpress short runs of each on a wonderful heavy paper. The essays are quite brief, and their subjects are various (so far: Jean Jacques Rousseau, dining out in Portland 1851, and gin). Mostly they’re about food and culture and the ways we share both.
“Crack Press”. Portland. Crack Press. Somehow it all works. The problem is I’m not sure whether to tie this to the drug problem in Portland or the quality of the writing coming out of Ripe. I’ll let you pick.
Only “short runs”. Collect them all! I remember when I was 14 and Taco Bell gave away free glasses with cartoon characters on them when you bought a Bellbeefer and a large coke. I went every day. 30 years later I’m gonna be rushing to Ripe every day. I’ll never grow up.
I am glad they will be on “wonderful” paper. That way when the card keeps getting in the way as I’m eating and I’ve spilled sauce on it several times, (probably covering key words of absolute brilliance), I can carefully take it home and still hope to put it in my memory book.
Jack Spicer, the San Francisco poet who believed his poems were transcriptions from a kind of dictating intelligence that might have been Martians, forbade the circulation of his work outside the San Francisco Bay area. Publication, for Spicer, meant, first, a public that could read. Reading, understanding, were local. The East Coast could go to hell. Publication defines a public. In a similar spirit, these essays written for ripe will be published at ripe. If you come to eat, you’ll get to read them. Take your copy, if you care to, and expect more in the future. The essays are one of the ways ripe thinks.
So are Naomi/Hebberoy saying that they are suffering “from a kind of dictating intelligence that might” be Martians? That would explain a lot – as a matter of fact I would be looking for someone to blame too. That explains the Scientology lecture before each meal (ducking). “The essays are one of the ways Ripe thinks.” Say no more, say no more!
Anyone who is familiar with the writings of Jack Spicer (he died around 1965), know he was.. well… out there. Take a look for yourself: Website. He had some interesting ideas.
Once again, we are reminded, you can’t get the essays without buying the Bellbeefer. Sigh. “Take your copy! Collect the whole set!” In the meantime, Ripe is my muse.
Feel free to comment;>)
Marshall Manning says
Around that same time, 7-11 (Back when they were actually open from 7 AM to 11 PM) had a series of collector’s Slurpee cups featuring the faces and statistics of Major League Baseball players. Being an 8 year old baseball nut, I’d have my mother drive me down to the 7-11 almost every day for a Slurpee, and I built a sizeable collection of the cups. That wasn’t enough for me, and I wanted the complete set, so I’d start calling the local 7-11 and asking which cups they had that day. After a few weeks of this, the 7-11 clerk was tired of my daily calls and started telling me (7-11 clerks also spoke English in that long ago time) that the cups were of Betty Grable, Englebert Humperdink, Jack Lemmon, etc. I knew they weren’t ballplayers, so I asked my mother who they were. Mom just lauged and said that I probably shouldn’t call anymore.
Funny, then, that Mom is coming up this weekend and said that she wants to treat us to dinner. Maybe I should have her take us to Gotham Tavern and start a new collection? They might fetch thousands on E-bay someday. Or not.
You need to quit picking on these people. They are more responsible for more jobs then anyone else in the industry. Just because they are being creative doesn’t mean you should be constantly picking on them and trying to destroy what they have gotten. You need to quit being jealous because you are too old and fat to start your own place we know you are doing this because you want your own restaurant. If it werent for them portland wouldn’t have any good restuarants.
let me see if I can follow that anonymous post…
The hebberoy’s three gigs employ more than anyother in the service industry… hmmm, well that’s not true, but good for them for hiring people.
Picking on them… I think they can handle it.
The people here and/or host/reviewer want to open their own restaurant but are too old and fat to do so… huh? It would seem to me that a fat person and/or old person could easily open a restaurant if they had the desire. But maybe only thin and young people open restaurants.
and lastly, portland had no good restaurants prior to clarklewis?
well this person utterly fails to make any sense, but I think we get the idea… you love the ripe empire, leave them alone, they can do no wrong in your eyes.
p.s. their food really is average and you don’t have to travel to NYC, LA, NAPA, etc to learn that you can go to a number of places here to discover that
Marshall Mannning says
I was wondering if the first anonymous post might have been written by Ripe’s writer-in-residence. What talent!
Could someone please explain the following quote from Michael Hebberoy that is from September’s issue of W magazine? The article is titled: “Rebel Restaurateurs Michael and Naomi Hebberoy, the young prince and princess of the Pacific Northwest food scene, are out to change the way you eat.”
Here’s the quote:
“Everyone thinks the food revolution happened with Alice Waters” says Michael between nibbles of organic nasturtium leaf ….” Today you have all these straight, sterile, beautiful restaurants where every chef is doing the same thing as everyone else.”
Specifically I don’t know what he’s saying about Alice Waters. Without understanding what he’s saying it does sound rather arrogant.
By the way, I am the same Anonymous who guessed that Zell’s was the restaurant one of your readers was searching for. I beat that ubiquitous extra MSG guy to the punch!! I felt very clever for about five minutes!
Finally, thanks for posting about the Ripe group and allowing responses. Over at Chowhound they have been deleting any non-positive responses to a positive review that is currently posted. Also noticed that they (chowhound people) had put a please don’t post about the hurricane here on the New Orleans chowhound board. Seems they lightened up a bit(encouraging people to post on the “not about food” board) but me thinks they are far too rigid about their food only rule.
Oh yeah, one last thing. I’ve got 2 sets of Blazer glasses from the Dairy Queen and I don’t want them.
What’s wrong with McDLTs?
They were Deluxe.
They had lettuce.
They had tomato.
What more could you want?
W is an oversized high fashion magazine, lots of fashion and gossip about New York socialites. You could probably find it at Powell’s or Borders. The September issue has Kirsten Dunst on its cover. To make it easy for you, if you find it, the article is on page 403 of this issue’s 600, yes 600 page issue. Here’s their website url http://www.style.com/w/. If you really would like to read it and can’t find it I’ll make a copy of the article and email it to you.
m hebberoy in the W magazine states “I have the uncanny ability to talk people out of their money”
“I’ll still buy their music or watch their movie if it’s good. And I think most people are the same. Why is it different with this?”
It’s different with this because this is neither Hollywood nor the entertainment industry.
I don’t plan to enter their doors ever again… their food is alright and although the service is a bit “bloated”, it has been pretty fair.
The reason I wish to visit elsewhere is because this town has places that have far better food, far better service, but most relevant in this situation less arrogance.
Most successful restaurants in Portland don’t seem to have to resort the shenanigans that Ripe does to get customers through its doors, though, Extramsg. Well, maybe Hooters or The Spaghetti Factory does. But I like to think that there’s a segment of diners for whom good food and good service are paramount, and writers-in-residence (e.g.) are distractions.
“I think you all are a bunch of ridiculous purists”
so says extramsg who, as usual, feels the need to have the last word and make sure we “know” he is right and we or any dissention from his view is wrong.
well, he goes on to say they ought to “hype” all they can and get people in their seats and prove it from there.
Well a lot of us have and I think what you see here is a different opinion than extramsg and that is…
Don’t believe the hype
ridiculous- arousing or deserving ridicule.
purist-one who adheres strictly and often excessively to a tradition.
so we deserve ridicule?
and we are all adhereing strictly and excessively to traditon?
a little advice… watching your presumptions would behoove your credibility
which on this subject is pretty shot… we get it. You adore the hebberoys and they can do wrong.
cool man cool.
My sister alerted me to the article in W. My favorite part is the picture of the carbonara labeled one of NAOMI’s ‘signature’ dishes. Hmmm…I could be wrong, but it seems more the work of a guy who worked for Mario Batali than a former hostess.
The Alice Waters jab was annoying, but not a huge surprise.
The other thing is, as far as ‘rebel’ food goes,the food at Clarklewis (I’ve capitalized on purpose) is almost a carbon copy of Paul Bertoli’s at Oliveto.
I’d print the article, they’ll send a cease and desist if they care and then people will have already read it and you can take it down.
wow. as extramsg applies logic, it seems his views are expanding… evolution. cool man cool
i love hollywood. loads of fun
Not even my family would dare to talk to me like they have at supper.
Ruben Bailey says
Please do not feel like you are givning those guys any extra PR…it is good for you to post and comment and let us comment on items like this. I consider this to be somewhat of a “trade” type site anyway.
However, once again with the publishing of the “Ripe Way” you have succeeded in making me sick to my stomach.
My favorite part of that whole bit (which provided some much-needed morning amusement) was the inference that it was a wise idea to open one’s self up to channeling Martians.
Is this a side-effect of too much gin drinking, perhaps…?
Thanks again for keeping us updated on the ripe cultural fountain. It’s comforting knowing that someone out there is thinking up absurd sh*t so I don’t have to. I propose a subtitle for the ripe literary experience. How about “Ripe: Mentally masturbating so you don’t have to”. They really are trying to develope some sort of cultural cult. Brilliant. It’s not the hackery or ‘crackery’ that I’m worried about. I’ll be worried when they come out with the Ripe grape Kool-aid.
Thank you, but I don’t consider myself old (though am obviously older then you), and at last check weighed in the 150’s. You couldn’t pay me enough to be in the restaurant business.
The nice thing about the ripe empire is it gives kids like you (It is obvious from your writing you are not quite a college graduate – GED?), a place to work. By the way, try Vaseline Intensive Care for that rough skin you’re getting from washing all those dishes.
Marshall – thanks for making me laugh. I am actually going to be at one of their restuarants this weekend myself. I’ll try to steal cards from other tables so you can start a collection.
I looked at the first anonymous post and the thing that immediately came to mind was: troll. I suspect someone just trying to start a flame war rather than someone who knows what they’re talking about.
FoodDude, you mentioned the Taco Bell glasses. What’s funny is that they’re still in the cupboard at my dad’s house — and not because they couldn’t buy new ones. Unlike those Slurpee cups that Marshall mentioned, the things were made surprisingly well. I still choose them over others when I get a glass of water. They’re sturdy and I like the heft to their bottoms. They even still have their prints (Tasmanian Devil and Tweety Bird).
So you never know, Stadler may surprise. I don’t see any reason to assume that reading at the dinner table will hurt the eating experience. At least it’s a choice, unlike The Herb Farm, where you must suffer a speech whether you like it or not.
Indications are that it could just be pseudo-intellectual fluff, the kind of stuff you get from English grad students in critical theory classes. But hopefully it will actually say something.
Anonymous 9:52 – There is so much wrong with that I just don’t know where to start. To even put their food in the same league as Alice Waters boggles the mind. Even the upstairs is better then gotham or Clarklewis. I don’t know what W magazine is, but I’m tempted to track it down.
Vapid1 – It does sound a bit like a cult, doesn’t it. Next they’ll all be living in a commune somewhere.
I don’t think content (or weight of the paper for that matter) was ever an issue. I’m sure their house bard can open up his Bartletts book of quotations, or more likely, rail off some brief essay based on his most recent web browsing, bathroom readings, or periodical while sucking down free Gin at a ripe bar. It’s true, any bumpkin who’s had some book learnin’ can throw together a piece of esoterica that can provoke thought; given the willingness of the reader to bite (hell, look at the overwhelming number of blogs).
The REAL issue here though is the integrity and intent of the delivery. If you have to tell people you’re cool, then you ain’t cool. You see there’s a big difference between being creative and telling people how creative you are. NaoMike are promoters, marketers, hawkers, shills, and when they wrap their fingers around the egg of creativity and call it their own then they are nothing more than insufferable courtesans and poseurs. They lack control and understanding of their chosen medium. They display hubris as if it were some shiny new toy while having no concept of the contextual history of the industry. Kudos to Naomicheal for having money and hiring talented people. Yet, their attempts at cultural revolution are as valuable and meaningful as folding bicycles, reality TV and the McDLT. If you really need something to read take a copy of the NY Times, or the Weekly World News…and a flashlight.
I think this grand Idea of notecards actually was inspired by Monty Pythons The Meaning of Life. One of the skits involves a middle aged couple at a restaurant. They don’t know what to talk about. The waiter suggests a conversation on philosophy and provides them with cards that contain philosophers names and general thoughts. The middle aged couple then procedes to discuss “philosophy” (apparently Carole Bayer Sager is a philosopher). Is that how they see diners? I’m hoping for talking fish and exploding people next.
P.S. I heard NaoMIke was looking at some property near Antelope.
This post has been removed by the author.
Vapid: I don’t think that’s correct. Hebberoy is not a poseur (except in the broadest sense) just because he constantly hypes himself the Ripe Empire. No one hypes themselves more than Mario Batali and Gordon Ramsey, yet they’re not poseurs because they can back it up. The Ripe Empire is a bit frustrating or annoying because their attitude is so reminiscent of immature college students or “intellectuals”, the types that Woody Allen has so often parodied. But then again, their restaurants are producing some of the best food in the city. I’d put both restaurants in the top 10. I think it’s unfortunate that people can’t separate the people from the product. Afterall, all this talk about the people behind Ripe is no different than People Magazine/National Enquirer/Access Hollywood stuff that goes back and forth about celebrities. Despite how freaky or conceited a celebrity is, I’ll still buy their music or watch their movie if it’s good. And I think most people are the same. Why is it different with this?
Anonymouseseseseseses: You can take on a moniker by clicking “other” and putting in a name. Then everyone will know where to attribute accolades.
Not to get too far off-topic here, but Chowhound did the right thing by deleting both posts pro and con the report there. Chowhound has always had a policy (that I often get nailed for breaking) that posts should be about the food and that “everything else is noise”. If someone had actually talked about the restaurant and the dining experience, rather than the original poster, then the comments would have remained, I suspect.
Sigh. First, vapid1 you are one kick ass writer. If you would write on that heavy paper, I might end up spending more money in the ripe empire, but as for now, i can get it for free. SO THANK YOU!
Secondly, this endless ripe hype and subsequent kvetching (i know, i am part of it) still did nothing to make me feel any better about what is happening to New Orleans and all my NOLA friends, now refugees in my home, Memphis.
Third, I am confused. In the O, Micharoy slobbered all over NYC and now he is pimping the attitude of “fucking the East Coast.” They are just hilarious at this point. Well, it would be hilarious if I wasn’t so preoccupied with helping my friends find new lives in a new city.
Sorry if it ain’t cool to care, but I care more about these lives than anything in Portland, esp. fancyass food. I feel like a total jerkoff sometimes for the changes in my own cares since moving to this Never Never Land where very few are that poor and I can afford to turn my nose up on all kinds of coffee but one. Gimme a $1 taco and a a coke Slurpee and a job for all of my stranded friends.
I think you’re missing the point entirely MSG. This has never been about the food being put out by Ripe inc., which is very good, but the marketing of this tedious Ripe persona. Batali and Ramsey are kickass chefs who’ve paid there dues. They’ve burned themselves, cut themselves, driven themselves half mad night in night out busting their ass on the line in the name of their passion, good food. They’ve gotten themselves were they are through hard work, determination, and mad skills. They deserve to be spotlighted because they have earned it. Naomike is a showman, a small town PT Barnum, a Don King of Mayberry, who has hired well. They’ve done a wonderful job of capturing the local gastronomical buzz by being amazingly effective grass roots marketers. Yet when they speak as if they were some sort of culinary Robespierres it’s offensive tripe.
It is different from the enquirer/people/access hollywood because I work in restaurants in this town. I’ve seen restuarants close. I’ve seen the hard work, the passion, the life draining effort to keep a dream afloat. And with every flip comment and naive statement they make about this industry it offends me. Every time they get fluff pieces and that ‘Oh Micheal, what’ll he say next’ bullshit it offends me. (By the by don’t ever get me started on Kenny G)
But tha-krza is right though. This is just kvetching about ‘fancyass’ food. And there are much more important things in this world.
“I’m just trying to rid the world of all these fevered egos that are tainting our collective unconscious”
po·seur n. One who affects a particular attribute, attitude, or identity to impress or influence others.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck
But come now, you’re not comparing apples to apples. You think Ramsey started his restaurants on his own or that Batali did? They had money men, hawkers, shills, marketing and business gurus behind them. The Beatles were great, but they were served greatly by Brian Epstein, and may not have ever been famous without him. You can say the same about Elvis and Colonel Tom Parker. I bet most successful artists and craftsmen have a business genius shamelessly hawking them along the way.
If you want to compare who has “paid their dues”, then look at the pedigrees of Brownlow and Maclarty and Habetz, the people actually running the kitchens.
And then look at the products. You say they “hire well”. Isn’t that an important skill? Look at how Rivers hired by name and got Wessen who put out mediocre food and is now leaving, on name, to make it rich in Colorado. Or look at how Riverplace spent bucks to remodel, but hasn’t gotten any good product out of the kitchen since they pushed out Sauton.
They even smartly made Brownlow a part-owner of clarklewis to give him a real stake in the restaurant.
I think you all are a bunch of ridiculous purists, imagining that good food just magically gets eaten and that customers pile into restaurants like mice to the music of the piper. Well, the music is as much the “hype” as it is the food — at least to get someone in the door. A variety of things conspire to keep people there. Maybe you don’t like the attitude in the hype, or the marketing doesn’t work for you, or whatever, but you shouldn’t blame them for trying every goddamn legal thing possible to get asses in the seats. They owe it to themselves and their crews. I would think that if you’re in the business you’d want the same from your proprieters. Just get people eating dishes and let you prove yourself from there.
PS: About poseur, I said “except in the broadest sense”, which I think is your definition. I think people more commonly associate the word with this:
n : a person who habitually pretends to be something he is not
It’s an important distinction. It’s one thing to pretend to be a rockstar, to play the part, to carry on like you’re Mick Jagger in the 60s and another thing to actually have the talent, etc, to go along with it.
I’ll try to make myself clear
1) “No one hypes themselves more than Mario Batali and Gordon Ramsey, yet they’re not poseurs because they can back it up.”
That’s the point. They can back it up. They have experience, and they themselves are the product. Naomikes absurd ideas and tedious diatribe is not a product.
2) “But come now, you’re not comparing apples to apples.”
If Batali and Ramsey are apples then Naomike is definitely a twinkie. See above quote. I most certainly am not comparing the two.
3) “The Beatles were great, but they were served greatly by Brian Epstein, and may not have ever been famous without him. You can say the same about Elvis and Colonel Tom Parker.”
I’m not questioning the necessity of a good manager. But a good manager realizes who the star is, unlike our culinary Mountebank Naomike. I think Don King is a better analog.
4) “Maybe you don’t like the attitude in the hype, or the marketing doesn’t work for you, or whatever, but you shouldn’t blame them for trying every goddamn legal thing possible to get asses in the seats.”
Now here you scratch the surface of what I’m talking about. It is about the attitude . It’s never been about the food, or having a successful restaurant, or even advertising for that matter. It’s about the arrogance and absurdity of Naomike, as well as the medias desire to lap it up.
5)”I think you all are a bunch of ridiculous purists, imagining that good food just magically gets eaten and that customers pile into restaurants like mice to the music of the piper”.
I am ridiculous (most of my friends and family will agree) and I am a purist (at least about that abomination known as the DH, stupid AL) So then why do restaurants close? Is this due to some magic running out? If this is the case I recommend that Naomike hire a house magician to insure a constant flow of business supporting mana. And the house writer can document his great adventures in a series of childrens books. I wonder if Pipers will work for sweat equity. I’d rather be a ridiculous purist than an apologist, or worse yet, blind consumer.
6)”n : a person who habitually pretends to be something he is not
It’s an important distinction. It’s one thing to pretend to be a rockstar, to play the part, to carry on like you’re Mick Jagger in the 60s and another thing to actually have the talent, etc, to go along with it.”
I don’t like getting into the semantics game. Naomike is a poseur. Mick Jagger was a rockstar. Naomike is a poseur revolutionary. Or maybe he’s a revolutionary poseur. Words are fun.
7) ‘If you want to compare who has “paid their dues”, then look at the pedigrees of Brownlow and Maclarty and Habetz, the people actually running the kitchens.’
You’re right. Compared to Naomike these people have paid their dues, in spades.
8) ‘You say they “hire well”. Isn’t that an important skill?’
It’s always been my contention that it indeed is. I commend Naomike for talented staffing. But once again that’s never been a point of discussion. If not for the people creating the food they would be an unwarrented success. And the jury is still out on the Brownlow hire. A large part of being a succesful Chef is managing the kitchen and its staff. The constant advertisements on craigslist and in the Oregonian for Clarklewis line cooks is not due to the shallow talent pool in this market. Great food does not always equal great chef.
Finally. When one openly seeks out and embraces the media one willingly opens themselves up for review. Naomike has sought out publicity at every turn and consistently offered his opinions and ramblings. Therefore they now exist in the public realm and are open for discourse. Naomike has solicited our response and I am simply obliging him. Remember, there’s no such thing as bad press. I will not slap a smile on my face and gobble down their food and pretend he’s not an insufferable ass, or that his comments are acceptable because their restaurants are good. In our society we willingly suffer fools because they have something we want. But then again I’m no foodie.
>>>When one openly seeks out and embraces the media one willingly opens themselves up for review. Naomike has sought out publicity at every turn and consistently offered his opinions and ramblings.<<
Vapid1 – I love your comments. Thanks for coming to my site. We should have dinner sometime. I am way sick of this whole thing and have pretty much stayed out of it, but as usual everyone has great comments and I like to foster good debate.
I actually went to Gotham in the past few days. Went in trying to be as unbiased as possible and had a dinner that will make me re-write my entire initial review. I need to get there again next week first. Hopefully by then they will have the September menu (didn’t tonight).
For those that are wondering: yes, I have a table card (big as the menu) of the residents writers work. It doesn’t have a copyright anywhere, but not sure if I’ll get in trouble if I post it – anyone have thoughts about this? I’d like to post it.
Also had a very kind reader scan and send me the W article. I’ll try to put up some snippets from it tomorrow. It is entertaining.
Copyright protection is enabled as soon as the work is created. It doesn’t need to say anything about copyright being claimed, etc. You technically can’t reprint it without permission.
However, I don’t know what they would or could do about it.
GirlCook… and the gnocci are better at Zuni;)and bluehour for that matter.
I spent forever trying to find the article on the W Magazine website to no avail. Someone sent me a pdf of it, but I don’t have a way to host. Personally, I think the article is okay, but the pictures made me laugh out loud. Wish I could put them up!
If their “Kill the Restaurant” assertions refer to the Ripe experience, they’re probably fair, though self-important. It’s true that Chez Panisse, despite the fixed-price menu without choices that changes daily, focused on local and seasonal ingredients prepared simply, the experience of dining at Chez Panisse is very much still like dining at any restaurant. The experience of Ripe, though, is much closer to a — as they rightly named it — family supper. Personally, I thought the point of going out to eat was to avoid a family supper (at least it partly is for me) but I can see why in this age of largely disconnected people a family supper might be attractive.
If it refers to the style of the food itself, then it seems unfair. To a large extent, the Hebberoys are clearly enamored with the Chez Panisse style. Girl_Cook and FoodDude make comparisons to Oliveto and Zuni, both Chez Panisse progeny. When I describe the food at the Hebberoys’ restaurants (or several other Portland restaurants), I usually compare them to those Bay Area icons. And they’ve brought in two chefs schooled in that style. It seems odd to dismiss the food that most resembles your own. I tend to think they’re just talking about the dining style.
I also don’t think it would make sense if the Hebberoys are referring to Gotham and clarklewis. Industrial interiors and extra silverware on the tables is certainly not new.
Betsy has been kind enough to post the original article over at her site. http://www.echonyc.com/~lizbet/blog/archives/001091.html
It is entertaining reading. Thanks Betsy!
If I make an economic choice based on those behind the product then that’s my choice. If my mechanic beats his wife, I’ll probably find a new mechanic, if the Blazers have eleven miscreants and thugs on their bench I probably won’t buy tickets, if Don King promotes a fight I’ll find something else to watch, and if an insolent wag tells me he’s rebelling against the industry I’m in by stealing other peoples ideas and passing them off as his own then I may very well decide not to eat at his restaurants. One has the right and often times responsibility to make economic decisions based on more than ‘is it good?’,or ‘do I want it?’. I personally enjoy GBT and Clark, but if I stopped going because of Naomike then that’s my goddam right as a consumer. You may be the one living in an idealistic world. You say we are ridiculous purists believing food just magically appears; admonishing us that there is much that goes on behind the scenes that we are ignoring. Yet when we look behind the scenes critically, you shift gears and say “And it’s not really on point. It doesn’t say anything about the quality of the food or the quality of the restaurant.” The quality of an organization can be judged on many levels. If you want to slap on blinders, or the feed bag as the case may be, and pretend that the only thing that matters is the chair your sitting in and the food in front of you then go ahead. But, you are way out of line admonishing others for participating in discourse that involves a bigger picture, and opinions that don’t reflect your own. If you buy the packaging then enjoy this great new culinary happening. If you consume critically then realize they’ve opened a couple good restaurants and Hebberoy is a naive twit.
I don’t disagree in principle, but in practice as it relates to R/c/GBT and the Hebberoys, the attacks are often superficial, immature, based on very limited information and often rumor, spite for the sake of spite, and the same sort of backbiting that makes Hollywood and DC so distasteful.
Hey Vapid, I ain’t makin’ ya go. I forget, why is disagreement seen as a violation of your rights?
Appearing in a puff piece in a magazine like W is placing yourselves front & center in that distasteful world of celebrity, msg. To me, it seems that is exactly what motivates the two of them.
This is the same magazine that 2 months ago flaunted an affair and a divorce as “art” (Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie). Just sayin’.
First off, I should have stated ‘have enjoyed’. The nature of my schedule doesn’t afford me the luxury of dining out. Let alone being a regular anywhere. When I do, I try to support restuarants that need it (places that are good and don’t get the press). Of course that’s my subjective opinion and my own personal choice.
I never implied or outwardly stated you were making me go. Nor has this ever been about wether I personally go or not. Just like this thread has never been about the quality of the restaurant or food, which you seem to like to go back to incessantly. My assertion is that regardless of the influences on ones economic decision, it is there’s to make, and no less valid than anothers. You imply that if one doesn’t judge solely on the quality of the product then the choice is superficial, and therefore irrationaly based. When you say that this is correct in theory, yet does not apply to Ripe, then you make a tremendous leap into generalization. I’m sure there are some that don’t go out of resentment, jealousy, insecurity whatever. I’m sure there are those that choose to not support the Hebberoys. Regardless, ones personal economic choices are there own and no less valid. If Hebberoy offends someone,and subsequently they don’t go to a Ripe restaurant then that is a very valid and powerful economic decision, not to be taken lightly, particularly if I were a resterauteur. Some actually choose to prctice their principles.
As far as the analogy with Hollywood gossip. I think Angelina is a Catty bitch for stealing Brad away from Jennifer. Would your argument be “Angelina isn’t a Catty Bitch, her performance in Gia was great”? Regardless of what side you take, or wether your scolding others for their pettiness, you are still actively participating in the conversation and keeping it alive. If this is such a distasteful process, existing nly for the self-amusement of those involved then feel free to stop posting on every site and on every thread that is not directly about the food. Practice principles
You imply that if one doesn’t judge solely on the quality of the product then the choice is superficial, and therefore irrationaly based.
No, not at all. What I was saying was that the majority of reasons given for disliking the Hebberoys and their restaurants have been superficial and immature and played out as backbiting and name-calling.
I’m sure there are some that don’t go out of resentment, jealousy, insecurity whatever. I’m sure there are those that choose to not support the Hebberoys. Regardless, ones personal economic choices are there own and no less valid.
Well, I don’t know about “no less valid”. If someone says they’re not voting for Candidate A because he chews gum, I think that person’s decision should be pointed out as lame and less valid than someone who votes doesn’t vote for Candidate A because he will raise taxes or outlaw abortion. Whether I agree with these decisions is not the issue. How they’re formed is.
There is a scale of validity. Some things are higher on that scale than others. And some things are better bases for making a claim, too.
As far as the analogy with Hollywood gossip. I think Angelina is a Catty bitch for stealing Brad away from Jennifer. Would your argument be “Angelina isn’t a Catty Bitch, her performance in Gia was great”?
No. I don’t care whether Angelina is a catty bitch or not. But if the argument was, Angelina is a catty bitch, therefore Gia is terrible, then I’d be inclined to speak up. Well, since I haven’t seen Gia, I wouldn’t, but maybe if someone argued that Angelina is a catty bitch, therefore Tomb Raider is a bad movie, I might speak up, even though I think Tomb Raider is a bad movie.
Regardless of what side you take, or wether your scolding others for their pettiness, you are still actively participating in the conversation and keeping it alive. If this is such a distasteful process, existing nly for the self-amusement of those involved then feel free to stop posting on every site and on every thread that is not directly about the food. Practice principles
That’s wrong. Engaging in a side would indeed be keeping it alive, but trying to change what the argument is over is just that.