Portland Food and Drink

Restaurant News and Information For Portland Oregon Area Restaurants and Bars

Out-Of-Season Produce – Ok in a Restaurant?

by 104 Comments

TomatoesShould restaurants serve produce that has to be shipped in from other countries because it is not available locally?

I just got an email from a reader asking how I felt about the use of out-of-season produce by restaurants:

Speaking of local fresh ingredients …. on Nov. 24th Castagna refused to have tomatoes for their hamburgers, saying there weren’t any available. I replied that there were plenty of tomatoes of different types in the grocery store. But the server said they have no tomatoes in the restaurant (because they’re not locally grown?). My friend and I thought this was carrying the concept a bit far, as a hamburger to us was not complete without tomatoes. With all due respect, this is where principles become strident absurdities. Your opinion? –

My answer:

You are going to hate me, but I agree with them. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten greenish or flavorless tomatoes on a burger. I can never understand why restaurants use them when they are out of season. In my humble opinion, compared to locally grown, the California tomatoes just don’t have any taste!

Since that exchange, I’ve discussed this with several people and have found varying responses.

This is Portland; home of “natural, farm to market, organic, fresh-to-table, local, etc.” Do we really want out of season produce in burgers and salads just because we are used to it? Is a gassed, flavorless tomato, flown from a distant place really what we want? I like a nice thick slice of tomato on a burger as much as most people, but in my opinion, going without them for a time is one of the things that make each season special – a thing to look forward to.

Feel free to discuss below, I’d love you to take a moment and leave me a comment!

Reader Interactions

Comments

  1. magnolia says

    I just really don’t want to put gassed, genetically modified or grown in timbuktu (talk about fossil fuel usage) tomatoes or any product for that matter into my body. Is it really worth it?
    Doesn’t waiting til they are juicy, aromatic and flavorful make getting them in the summer all that more enjoyable?

    I applaud any restaurant that saves their customers from potentially unhealthy and unsavory product.

    Reply

    • glainie says

      I feel the same way about tomatoes as I do about strawberries. Locally grown, and in season, they are a joy to behold. I look forward to them in much the same way I look forward to turkey at Thanksgiving. There are some great hamburgers to be found in Portland, the best of which employ a local, and more importantly, a seasonal application of ingredients. Some of my favorite hamburgers in town go tomato-less ten months out of the year. Le Pigeon, Carlyle, Toro Bravo, are just a few that manage to create a darn tasty burger without tomato. Carlyle goes so far as to create a tomato jam (when local heirlooms are in season) as a condiment used the balance of the year.

      Reply

  2. nagrom says

    I prefer some type of pickles this time of year on my burger. I love a tomato on my burger and in fact was craving one today but I know that it will taste that much better when they are ripe and haven’t travelled. My grandpa likes to tell me about getting oranges for Christmas and how amazing they were because he only got them once a year, when they were ready to eat. I like that something so everyday to us now could have once been a real treasure. I think it still should be.

    Reply

  3. SecretNatasha says

    I think it’s funny that this reader referred to “carrying a concept too far.” Tt’s THEY who are carrying a concept too far, the concept of “every meal I eat should be just the way I like it,” no matter the cost. If you try to be mindful of the principles of local and seasonal eating – which, considering the impact of human agriculture on the environment, we all should be – at some point you are going to have to sacrifice something for a while. That’s not “strident absurdity,” it’s just fact.

    Maybe a change of attitude is what’s in order. Yes, I miss fresh tomatoes in the winter too. But not only does that make the first bite of fresh tomatoes in early July more special and exciting, I’m also cognizant of how lucky I am to live in a place where the growing season is so long, where I can eat local tomatoes and even strawberries well into November, and the farmer’s market operates nine months out of the year. The Pacific Northwest is incredibly abundant, and eating in rhythm with the seasons reminds me to be grateful for that.

    Reply

    • james woody says

      wow a lovely comment.. Eating seasonably is a practice which forces the variety upon us, something so many sorely lack… Moderation in all thing, even sadly, tomatoes

      Reply

  4. polloelastico says

    Most pedestrian supermarket tomatoes are worthless at this time of year, but I’m fine with a hydroponic or greenhouse tomato in the winter/spring as a sandwich garnish. We are on the cusp of breakthrough technology that will pave the way for sentient robots which will indubitably rise up and crush humanity; I’d like to think we can grow serviceable fruit using tried and true pesticied-free methods that have been perfected over decades.

    I generally don’t care for burgers without even a slice of erstwhile tomato.

    Just stay away from Florida and Mexican field tomatoes, which are almost certainly a bi-product of forced labor and carry with them a lot of bad ju ju.

    Reply

  5. Joisey says

    I’m pretty much over the “cut my nose off to spite my face” locavore attitude. Seasonal cooking is great, but If I see some really nice tomatoes at the store I’m not pulling out my seasonality/carbon footprint guide and feeling Portland guilt if they weren’t grown in some co-op garden on Alberta.

    Reply

  6. jollypdx says

    If you can stand to put one of those shiny, polished, insipid, soggy, zombie tomatoes in your mouth I don’t think you’re actually as big a fan of tomatoes as you think you are.

    Kudos to any restaurant willing to make a small stand against the “have it your way” attitude and the absurdity of wanting a “fresh” tomato in winter. No one balks when a high end restaurant changes its menu with the seasons, this isn’t any different.

    Reply

  7. Drew says

    You guys go ahead and eat those mealy tasteless grocery store tomatoes from who-knows-where. Somebody has to. I’ll wait for an in-season tomato that’s actually bursting with tomato flavor. There are plenty of other yummy burger toppings, sandwich garnishes, and salad ingredients without the compromise in flavor and quality that an out-of-season tomato necessitates.

    Reply

  8. pdx_yogi says

    Totally agree with FD. When they are in their full local glory I’ll enjoy them all the more. Same for strawberries. Makes them all the more special. And when they aren’t here and I “do without”, I don’t feel deprived at all. I seek other joys that will remind me it’s December not July. Thanks for giving me more reasons to return to Castagna, LP, & TB.

    Reply

  9. M2 says

    Why stop at tomatoes?

    I understand the sentiment, but just consider the source of all the other foods you may take for granted.

    Yes, there are bad tomatoes. Then again, there are many other foods that are locally grown that aren’t always as good as “home garden grown”. I spent a lot of time on a farm during my youth, and know how good (and bad) some things can be.

    As you consider the “just say no to out of season tomatoes” mantra, take a closer look at the other foods you consume.

    Reply

  10. wineguy says

    I couldn’t disagree less with the person who wants out of season tomatoes. I’m guessing they think there’s nothing like a “fresh” caprese salad in January, is there? Mmmm-mm. As for the BC hothouse tomatoes and “vine ripened” tomatoes you see in the store, color doesn’t mean flavor. Talk about all show and no go. Gee, how hard is life if I have to go without tomatoes for four or five months? Respect your palates, people.

    Reply

  11. Bertha says

    I agree about the tomatoes…flavorless out of season, when you can get local fabulous tomatoes in a few more months…however, I do enjoy avocados…have not found them locally grown.
    I had bananas and pineapple in HI, and have not had any here since. The flavor difference of local to mouth is unmistakable.
    I really appreciate the locavore, organic sustainable focus in Portland.

    Reply

  12. Nancy Rommelmann says

    I think it’s up to the restaurant. If a place wants to pay for beautiful tomatoes from Chile in January, fine. And I agree about avocados (which I don’t think grow here at all, do they?). I agree with FD that there’s no reason to insist a restaurant carry a flavorless tomato just so a customer can have a slice (or a salad); it’s defeating the purpose of serving great food.
    Speaking of great; Dude, your site looks magnificent!

    Reply

    • justacook says

      Well there are really 2 sides to the whole local/seasonal thing. the die hards will say that you should only eat local period. If you do that you are missing out on so many great things! Avocados, bananas, pineapple, mango, guave, papaya (the list of tropicals goes on!) and dont think that I am gonna eat canned pineapple, yuck! but another thing to think about, what if your favorite taco truck decided to only cook seasonal, no pico de gallo? what is this world coming to?! you cant make mexican food without tomatoes!!! so maybe we should ban mexican food? hmmm….

      Reply

    • Hunter says

      Actually shouldn’t be up to the customer? If the customer wants the tomato, add it. If not, don’t. If they don’t like it, they can take it off. Perhaps I’m being simplistic but…..really?

      Reply

      • Nancy Rommelmann says

        My husband owns a coffee roastery and two cafes (Ristretto). We’ve had plenty of people ask if we’re making seasonal drinks, like pumpkin lattes, and why don’t we have blended drinks, and could we have more syrups, like cinnamon and sugar-free Snickers? The answer is no. All these things, in his opinion, make the coffee worse. You can get these at most other places, and that’s fine if they choose to serve them.
        If the chef as Castagna doesn’t think the tomatoes he can get, or chooses to get, in winter are going to make the burger better, he should leave them off.

      • biabub says

        Wasn’t it Ray Kroc who coined the phrase ‘the customer is always right’? So Hunter, if you enjoy the cooking skill and service provided at his fine establishments, you need not look to places like Castagna who are trying harder to make sure the dining experience is superior by using the best possible ingredients available at any given time.

      • Cuisine Bonne Femme says

        No. It is up to the restaurant and chef to decide and determine what they want on their menus and what makes their food best. Their restaurant, their menu, their rules. The end.

        It is up to the customer to decide to eat there or, eat there again. Imagine the scenario otherwise: It’s up to the customer to decide they want the restaurant to pick out all of the olives in the premade Greek Salad, the customer wants sugar free vanilla syrup but only the kind made with Agave syrup, why can’t the restaurant accommodate it? The customer wants sweet pickles on their burger not kosher, the customer wants crinkle cut not steak fries with their burger. It is endless.

        And as anyone who has worked in food service for more than 2 minutes knows, the customer is not
        always right.

        Kudos to Castagna for banning the bad tomatoes. Those things are nasty.

  13. Mary Sue says

    I have the solution for the reader: cultivate a loathing for tomatoes. Grow to detest them with all your might. Condition yourself to cringe and make a ‘yuk!’ face every time you hear the word ‘tomato’. And then you will discover “a hamburger […] was not complete without tomatoes” is a heretical statement.

    (I really, really, really hate tomatoes. Can you tell?)

    Reply

    • JDG says

      You are my new favorite person ever.

      I will be in Scottsdale next week for the holidays, uttering my favorite eight-word phrase as often as possible: “Double-double, regular and grilled onions, no tomato”.

      Reply

    • meimoya says

      Amen, sister! Grotesque oozing reproductive juices…bleah. Cooked tomatoes are fine, but fresh, plain plump red ones? Can’t even stand the smell… The foodie in me is not even a bit ashamed.

      Reply

  14. Gary says

    I have to agree with the yes to tomato on a burger. You can get marginally acceptable hydroponic tomatoes that are grown locally. In fact the Beaverton farmers market has a person that sells hydroponic tomatoes at the peak of the market and people line up at his booth to buy them. So either they aren’t all that bad or a lot of people have poor taste.

    A burger covers up a lot of the flaws in a marginal tomato. Now if we are talking a caprese salad there is no question that I only eat them in season as a marginal hydroponic tomato just doesn’t cut it.

    Reply

  17. Tricia says

    I just watched Food, Inc. last night so I’m pretty biased – but why can’t we enjoy the bounty of the summer in the winter? Just can the darn things! If we did more canning at the peak of season, then Castagna could make/buy some great canned tomatoes/relish/homemade ketchup.

    I know a lot of restaurants that switch to tomato relish or sundried tomatoes in the winter, and that’s what I’d prefer over a mealy slice of what resembles a real tomato that ripened on a truck on the highway.

    If you don’t agree, then at least know where your food is coming from and how it got to the table.

    Reply

  18. QV says

    I think stating it is a local/sustainable thing is a trap that a restaurant should avoid when stating why they don’t have tomatoes in winter. It is too easy to call them on it when they have say…tropical fruit in a dessert or yes, avocados.. or Italian balsamic vinegar and Spanish olive oil for that matter.

    However I agree with not serving something (winter tomatoes)that are subpar on principle. This is a high-er end place commited to serving the best ingredients. So, if they would turn down a batch of seasonal strawberries for being subpar then why would they not altogether refuse to use an ingredient they know in advance is to be subpar? It is good to recall also in this day and age of close constant internet scrutiny of restaurants for every person that is upset by the lack of even a pink cardboardy tomato on their burger there are two people standing at the ready to cut them apart for using that very same tomato. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    In the past, I’ve found a nice compromise to be a more seasonal tomato slice substitute… tomatoes confited or oven dried or what have you whilst still in season.

    As to the fact that there are still some “nice” hydo tomatoes at grocery stores. This is true, there are some acceptable ones. But likely the better restaurants aren’t using the same suppliers as the grocery stores. That leaves a chef having to make a special trip to the grocery store just to buy a few tomatoes to get something borderline acceptable that half the people on the internets will curse them for serving anyway.

    Reply

  19. Serena says

    There are nice tomatoes available “on the vine”. They are not as good as fresh but they are fine on a hamburger. The burger is much worse with NO tomato. Get over it.

    Reply

    • justacook says

      so it sounds like you just dont like burgers if they are “much worse” without tomato… I mean really, a burger is a fine thing in itself(if properly cooked and seasoned) with just some mayo and bread!

      Reply

  20. djonn says

    It occurs to me that there are really two issues here (or possibly three).

    Yes, tomatoes in Oregon in winter are mostly going to be some combination of (a) imported from far away, (b) less flavorful than those grown Right Here, and/or (c) the product of alternative farming techniques (hydroponic, lab-hybridized, what-have-you). This is pretty much a given.

    But the email doesn’t really argue against this point; what it raises is a customer service issue. I respect the Castagna chef’s choice to alter the house burger recipe in light of what’s seasonally available; that’s reasonable, though I hope there’s a notation on the menu that says something about it. I don’t think it’s surprising that a customer expecting a burger with tomato should ask for it, and I don’t think it’s UNreasonable for a wise kitchen to stock a few emergency tomatoes for the customers who do ask for them, even way out of (local) season.

    The key here is properly informing customers. When there were supply and health issues with tomatoes awhile back, I distinctly remember that even fast food and quick-service places (Subway, McDonalds, Burgerville) posted clear signage in the restaurants that tomatoes either weren’t available or would be supplied only on request. Whatever one may think of the big fast food chains in terms of food quality, that was exactly the right thing to do from a service standpoint.

    So what does the Castagna menu say about the burger? A look at the Web site finds the burger only on the Cafe Castagna menu, listed simply as “hamburger & fries”. However, there is also a listing under “pizza” for “tomato, basil and fresh mozzarella”. Not “tomato sauce”, mind, but “tomato”. If I’m a diner reading that menu, I’m going to assume that the restaurant has tomatoes with which to top that pizza — and therefore, that they must also have tomatoes that can be applied to burgers. To be told that “there are no tomatoes in the restaurant” in that situation seems either disingenuous or high-handed — and leaves one puzzled about just what’s on that pizza.

    So while I don’t disagree with the locally-grown-is-better premise, the available data in the present case has me siding with the customer. It looks to me as if Castagna communicated poorly here, and that the customer’s expectation was not necessarily out of line.

    Reply

    • Melissa says

      Sometimes customer service as in “we say yes to everything” runs smack up against the restaurant’s integrity. In these instances the business and kitchen make a choice. They can serve what they feel is an inferior product to satisfy guests’ preferences, or they can stand by their honor despite offending people’s sensibilities and feelings of entitlement.

      Are we really so spoiled that we can’t ever be told, “no, you can’t have that” without a long explanation about the chef’s integrity, the locavore movement, and the cost of produce from Chile? I think the dining experience in general is enhanced when a kitchen draws a line and sticks to it. That tells me they have solid values. It’s the kitchen that always says, “sure, we don’t ever do that but we will for you,” that makes me wonder about what other compromises (i.e. freshness, sanitation, quality of product) they are making. If they are willing to give you tomatoes they know are poor, they are willing to give you a heck of a lot more crappy stuff that you can’t see.

      I say yay for Castagna. No tomatoes in December!!

      Reply

      • djonn says

        And this is the third issue I was noodling at above, but didn’t touch on in detail.

        Given that we’re talking about one of Portland’s best-regarded restaurants, I have no trouble whatsoever with the philosophy as you state it, and would entirely respect the execution of that philosophy in the kitchen…

        …if it weren’t for that pesky pizza made with “tomato, basil and fresh mozzarella” right there on the menu on the Web site.

        Every other element of the menus on that site appears to have been crafted with seasonal produce in mind. But either the description of that pizza is wrongly written (if it’s being made with a puree or sauce), or they’re getting tomatoes from somewhere in order to make it. In the modern era of fresh sheets and frequently updated menus, there’s no reason for an out-of-season item to be left on a menu if it’s not in fact available to be prepared.

        The philosophy may be a win, but the menu as written drops the ball on this one.

      • Food Dude says

        Couple of things to keep in mind.. I haven’t looked at the menu, but in general, restaurant menus are 5-6 months old. The tomatoes could be sundried. And, out of season tomatoes tend to taste better when they have been cooked, at least in my experience.

      • Melissa says

        Ditto. There are some amazing canned or preserved tomato products out there, and the most thoughtful of chefs will take advantage of produce in its prime and preserve it for the not so fine times.

      • djonn says

        I don’t think the “outdated menu” theory holds water, given that the available side items on the same page include roasted beets, roasted brussels sprouts, and roasted turnips. That looks like a current seasonal offering to me.

        OTOH, the sundried tomatoes are a distinct possibility — but if so, why not simply write the menu description of the pizza that way to avoid ambiguity? (And if there are sundried tomatoes, then for goodness’ sake why not offer to add those to the burger? Not the same as fresh, no, but I have heard of far weirder burger toppings over the years.)

      • Melissa says

        Now you’re getting into minutiae. Sun dried tomatoes, especially with the labor of remoistening, cost more. So now we’re into the hypothetical of charging more…the hypothetical…it gets absurd.

        At some point the cook can say, “no.” You want (what many people consider) one of the best burgers in PDX? No tomatoes! Life is about win-lose choices. Getting exactly what you want all the time is not good for you. And neither are waxy flavorless tomatoes.

  21. Eli says

    The *fact* is that out-of-season tomatoes (unless, as one person noted, grown indoors locally) carry a strong possibility of being the result of forced labor. That’s slavery to you and me. I think the last stat I heard on NPR for Florida tomatoes was 1 in 5 or 20%.

    I love tomatoes, but I’d forgo them forever if it meant making sure I’m not contributing to a human rights abuse.

    Reply

  22. brett says

    Come on. NOTHING grows here in the winter. So we’re restricted to root vegetables or apples that have been sitting around since the harvest? Give me a break. Locavores would have us all go back to subsistence farming, and would condemn most of the world to crushing poverty. Thanks for letting me know about this – now I’ll avoid Castagna out of principle.

    Reply

    • hoonan says

      Your kidding right? Your going to avoid Castagna because they don’t serve flavorless tomatoes during the offseason? If this is your criteria for frequenting a restaurant…good luck and enjoy Chili’s or Red Robin or Olive Garden or…

      Reply

      • guignol says

        well said hoonan, I cant impress enough how I respect them for not serving tomatoes when not in season. Seems like a person wrapped up in the monoculture of society that has to have certain ingredients to make them feel whole. What does a flavorless, unripe tomato contribute to a burger anyway? In my opinion, it contributes a flavorless unripe profile to an allready great burger.

    • man-o-steele says

      Hmmm I have been eating wonderful dark, tuscan kale, kohlrabi and beets of late from my garden. Oh, and dare I mention that I have had a few of my last tomatoes this week from my garden. All taste wonderful if you know how to prepare them. Before you dismiss an entire perspective, perhaps you can try it out first?

      Reply

      • justacook says

        man-o-steele: not that those things are bad, but I mean, come on you didnt really have a convincing argument! yes they all taste good but how many months out of the year are those the only things you will have growing in your garden? I agree with the tomato thing cause tomatoes not in season are pretty bad, but some of the locavores go a bit too far… actually no, they can eat what they want as long as I can eat what I want… sounds fair to me!

  23. djonn says

    I do admit to wondering here how many of the “local tomatoes only” crowd have eaten pizza or pasta prepared with bottled or canned sauces in the last few months — and how they know that the tomatoes that went into those sauces weren’t the product of either evil agricultural technology or evil labor practices.

    Reply

  24. magnolia says

    Suatainable doesn’t always mean local or organic. California does a good job of producing avocados and in the winter, Hawaii, Florida and Cali produce tropicals. These places are in the US, are close, and can oftentimes contribute positively to the economy and the workforce.
    The point is to KNOW where your food comes from, ask questions and make wise choices based on that info.

    To djonn: Your theory would require that a restaurant/chef have a little bit of everthing on hand to accommodate all varying tastes and preferences. I think bacon makes a burger. Got Bacon? No? Well you should…
    That’s just an impossible request, especially for a small, independent restaurant where budgets are tight.
    Just sayin…

    Reply

    • djonn says

      There are certainly limits on a broad general application of the “have extra ingredients” practice. However, that doesn’t address the present specific case, in which the Castagna menu itself mentions an item prepared with tomato.

      Reply

  25. wineguy says

    Hey FD…Ha! Just saw your poll to go along with this. Nice “unbiased” question. Your followup should have been:
    Q: I only eat food from third world countries because I approve of fruits and vegetables picked by exploited workers who work in deplorable conditions because it is all about me.
    A) Yes, because I have no conscience.
    B) No

    Reply

  26. johnny says

    On a Carl’s Jr Burger I can live with tasteless tomatoes but I’d but at a high end restaurant like Castagna I think they are right in not subjecting us to them. However I would appreciate the South American in season tomatoes . I think the locally grown movement is just an other example spin. A perfectly ripe fresh from the garden tomato with olive oil balsamic vinegar and touch of salt will be on my last meal menu.

    Reply

  27. Bertha says

    I wonder if we could get Castagna’s feedback on the “no tomato on the hamburger” v/s tomato on the pizza…this sounds like there is a disconnect somewhere.

    Reply

      • Janine says

        But that still doesn’t excuse them telling the emailer that they didn’t have any if they really do. If the person wants flavorless tomato I say let them have it, with a disclaimer if necessary. By the time you put all the condiments on a hamburger the tomato is about texture more than taste anyway, unless you’re a burger purist.

      • Food Dude says

        But what about the chef? It is becoming more and more common these days that chef refused to substitute ingredients because he feels they won’t work together. Doesn’t the chef have the right to say, “I don’t believe a lousy tomato should be on my burger, so I’m not going to offer it?”

      • djonn says

        The chef absolutely has that right, and I respect the principles of the many seasonalists posting in the thread. My point throughout has simply been that such principles should be clearly and consistently stated — and that what happened here was a communications failure. I don’t fault Castagna for choosing not to offer low-quality tomatoes on their burgers, but I do fault them for not communicating their principles clearly. There is an explicit contradiction between the statement attributed to the server and the menu as written, and that’s no one’s fault but Castagna’s.

      • djonn says

        Understood — but at least in my admittedly downscale-to-midscale experience of pizza, there are two distinct schools of thought as to whether you apply fresh tomato and then bake the pizza, or bake the pizza and then apply fresh tomato. And if we posit the existence of fresh tomato rather than sundried in the first place, we’re back to puzzling over the server’s “none in the restaurant” statement.

        What we’re left with is contradictory data. And the easiest way to forestall the puzzle would have been a clearer written description of the pizza on the menu.

      • Melissa says

        Wow. Since we weren’t all there, then the premises upon which you are making these deductions are dubious. Which brings into the question of the validity of the data entirely. I am about to go shoot myself for having this nerdly of a discussion. Excuse me.

      • JasonC says

        Well, if you’re making an authentic Neapolitan pizza, there’s no debate and no mystery: they have to be San Marzano tomatoes, they are going to be canned and they are not cooked before they go on the pizza. While Castagna is obviously not a certified VPN pizza restaurant there’s no reason to assume they use fresh tomatoes on their pizza, nor is quality pizza diminished in any way by not doing so.

  28. scarletb says

    I can’t tell you how many times I’ve pulled nasty, non-red tomatoes from a dish and wondered why they even bothered including them. This time of year tomatoes are terrible, even the ones flown in from afar where they might be in season, because the quality of the tomato suffers from the long transportation and need to produce the type of tomato that is disease-resistant, can withstand the travel time, etc. My thought is they should slow-roast a ton of tomatoes during the summer and then freeze them. This way they can include delicious tomatoes in dishes during the winter. Otherwise, don’t even bother. Come up with some other substitute to enhance the dish – be creative – but don’t include terrible tomatoes just because the dish needs something.

    Reply

  29. Michelle says

    Garrison Keillor spoke about this relating to peaches a few years ago in “A Prairie Home Companion.” He related the story of as a child yearning, every year, in the fall, for that perfect peach. I agree with you, lets wait for our tomatoes to be perfect and plump and ripe, in July/August.

    I often wonder why we have such a need to feed our wants, so much so that we are in want of nothing. If we need an answer, we look to wikipedia. If we want a tomato on our burger, we import them when they are not in season. We are in want of nothing to the point that I don’t think we know anymore what it’s like to really cherish and take care of something.

    Reply

  32. Food Dude says

    I say we take all of these comments, and WE MARCH ON TACO BELL! Oh, we should probably say something about the cheese too. Oops! I forgot, this was about Castagna, and not some private Taco Bell vendetta.

    Reply

  33. Marsha says

    When we support our local farmers we also support their right to sell their products to markets local or abroad. When local farmers sell to us , do we get better pricing? Most of the time,no. And many times prices increase because of the prilivage of doing business with them.
    Don’t get me wrong, I love to support local vendors and do so when I can at an affordable price [not cheapest]. If local isn’t an option, I then look at the next closest option.
    Fresh tomatoes this time of year is nice and still is needed in some dishes. Eating one that is not the small quality as a freshly picked only makes look forward to summer all the more.

    Reply

  34. Mike Thelin says

    Robert Reynolds once amusingly told me that “tomatoes were an agreement between God and the month of August.” I think that sums it up. While it’s true that tomatoes can be found in the off-season, they just don’t taste like the tomatoes of summer and usually aren’t worth the time it takes to chew them. Castagna isn’t alone: Clyde Common substitutes a delicious house-preserved tomato jam during the winter months. Toro Bravo’s excellent burger is swathed with Romesco. On and on…

    This isn’t a matter of ideology (Local restaurants after all use many products that aren’t local: charcuterie, liquors, olive oil, coffee, tea, and other products that must be imported). It’s a matter of quality and flavor. Produce is best when it’s in season, and that’s that.

    So props to Castagna.

    Reply

    • grapedog says

      Mike: I mentioned this quote to Robert tonight at a private dinner event in Carlton. He just smiled. :-) He knows what a good tomato is supposed to taste like. (and, i think he was happy that someone quoted him on a food blog)

      Reply

  37. Food Gems says

    Lots of restaurants in town are very selective about what they buy and who they buy it from.

    Toast at SE 52nd has an awesome burger — and this time of year — no tomatoes. So props to Toast too.

    Reply

  39. L'epicier says

    If it was up to me I’d use the vine-ripened ones from BC Hothouse. They’re in eastern B.C. I think near Kelowna. That’s about 400 miles away. I heard they are grown using geothermal too. Their flavor is way better than I would’ve thought, and a burger just ain’t worth eating without a ripe tomato. As for those Sysco tomatoes – I’d pass altogether. To me when a restaurant sez they don’t use a decent tomato because of the cost, then they serve me some tasteless version, I think I’d prefer a much smaller amt of better quality. Just sayin…

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  41. magpie says

    I can live without tomato on my burger in the winter when I go out to eat, but when working at places with a burger on the menu one way around it was to make plenty of tomato jam or pickled tomatoes in the summer. This way I had some type of tomato for the burgers during the months in which tomatoes are either coming from the southern hemisphere, or Canada. It didn’t always please every person, but in my mind making something with a great, in season ingredient was far better than dropping a couple of slices of not so good tomato on the plate.

    Reply

    • doza says

      The only way to eat a tomato right now at any decent restaurant is preserved. This is a fact anyone with taste knows. Tomato on your pizza or tomato sauce comes from exactly that, preserved tomatoes. It is a great reason for the home cook to learn to can tomatoes at the end of September. You can also slow roast or confit them, but they will not last until January unless canned. I will gladly eat a burger with tomato on it tomorrow if I am eating at a place where it is to be expected, but to expect this at a locally sourced restaurant is a lesson to someone to harvest nature’s bounty.

      Reply

  43. magnolia says

    This thread brings up the eternal nagging question of culinarians and restauranteurs…should chefs be of service to their clientele at all times, accommodating the culinary whims and adversities of the public? Or should they be independent souls, that create, challenge and particpate in the evolution of gastronomy?
    I give you, any good restaurant will strike the fine balance (and any talented chef will try), but where the heck do we draw the line?

    Reply

  44. Jean Gallagher says

    The difference between locally grown tomatoes (yes, even here in California) and those awful imported ones from anywhere is so vast that I agree, either wonderful, flavorful, firm tomatoes or none at all.

    Reply

  45. QV says

    “I give you, any good restaurant will strike the fine balance (and any talented chef will try)”

    I am trying to understand your assertion here… benevolence and talent have absolutely nothing to do with each other. When you are talking about accomodating the whims and fancies of a customer that is benevolence. Talent is the actual skill in the work one has chosen to do. And often, the most talented chefs are the least benevolent.

    Reply

    • meimoya says

      Do you mean to equate benevolence with a customer-first attitude? The two seem quite distinct to me, and I believe magnolia was addressing the latter…

      Reply

      • QV says

        What I am saying is that the OP stated that all talented chefs will have a “customer-first” attitude.

        ref: “any talented chef will try”

        And what I replied with is that attitude towards customers and talent have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

  46. ElBerko says

    I say no tomato. Tomatoes are one of my favorite things to eat and I really hate the under-ripe flavorless variety that comes to grocery stores this time of year. After you’ve grown your own, there’s no turning back.

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  47. Chad says

    I’d much rather have a nice house made tomato relish made from the tomatoes picked earlier in the year. Is this possible or are there rules against canning in restaurants?

    Reply

  48. Joe Dixon says

    All the talk of preserving is great, but often more idealistic than realistic. The fact is, there are stringent guidelines that govern the practice of canning and preserving, and often these require cost-prohibitive set ups in order to be above-ground operations.

    The owners of the restaurant I work at in Chicago do a lot of canning (canning being of high import in the mid-west), and once had to watch as a health inspector tossed 800 quarts of house made preserves in the dumpster before pouring bleach all over the whole thing. All because the restaurant’s kitchen wasn’t technically licensed as a preserving facility. Now, when we do make preserves, we have to keep most of them off-site, typically at the chef or owner’s home, and the rest are hidden in little nooks and crannies around the restaurant. We would love to be able to take better advantage of the mid-west’s short growing season, but high-volume preserving is simply not possible.

    Reply

  49. mscocinero says

    There are no rules, and shouldn’t be. Several years ago I gave up eating tomatoes out of tomato season because I love tomatoes so much. When they are in season, I eat them as often as I can…several times a day. When you pluck and eat a perfect tomato over and over again, one can’t help but raise the bar for tomato standards. I eat this way most of the time. Why? Things have seasons. I enjoy food so much that I value the principle of seasonal eating – because that is what makes good food. Food that are shipped from far away have lower quality and contribute to other world problems as we all know. I am mostly a seasonal eater and locavore. Although I am passionate about quality and freshness, it is not some religion to cling to. I make exceptions. I cannot live without citrus and the occasional avocado. I lived in the tropics for several years, so I just don’t enjoy tropical fruits here. I save those for when I am visiting the tropics – at which time, I thoroughly enjoy them and eat them daily. Our modern cultures evolve around convenience. The convenience of shipping and trade do not consider the idea of seasons – only convenience and commerce. Everything has a season and a level of quality. I know I can find everything pretty much anytime, but food is so enjoyable to me, that I try to eat the best for every meal, all the time. When I learned to enjoy seasonal products, then I started to be able to eat the best food all the time. My palate developed a season for everything. Life was good, but it only got better. I’m a chef and if I want to share excellent food with my patrons, I will use only the best available foods – which are pretty much those that are local and seasonal. I always challenge people to consider eating in this fashion. It takes effort, but it is not that hard. Any chef that cares about really good food would indeed follow these principles as much as possible. Perhaps they burger-ordering patron at Castagna was not aware that good food starts with good ingredients – not canned, frozen, shipped, green, or hothouse ingredients. That is how the food world works. They are obviously not much of a foodie. A food snob I am not, merely a foodie who has no problem defending good food based on good principles and the highest of quality. I encourage this writer to educate themselves and to move beyond their apparent food horizons. Ignorant and embarrassed is how I would feel if I were the one writing about the tomatoes at Castagna. Are you kidding me? Anyone who would say such a thing obviously took a wrong turn. Just head down any street. You’ll see a McDonald’s in no time.

    Reply

  50. Rick Hamell says

    For me the point is moot, I can not stand Tomato (or lettuce for that matter) on hamburgers at all. I would be delighted to find my hamburger pre-ordered sans tomato. Finding this tidbit of information out – I am now going to try this place out.

    Reply

  51. guignol says

    WOW, Food Dude

    I have never seen so much feedback from guests of your site regarding this matter!!! I am sure that Castagna will get lots of PR from this!!! They most definately deserve it, as being on of PDX’s most loyal establishments

    Reply

  52. Kolibri says

    I wish we could all be this progressive when it comes to things besides FOOD as well. But I digress…

    If you want a burger with tomatoes on it in December, then don’t eat at a restaurant that prides itself on using seasonal ingredients! It is that simple. Of course the chef doesn’t have an “obligation” to the customer to go outside of his food philosophy to satisfy certain customers! There are a wide variety of places to eat in PDX so find one that doesn’t focus on seasonality if you don’t believe in eating that way! How about burgerville, lol!!!

    (BTW- I love burgerville- not insulting them)

    Reply

  53. skbpdx says

    There’s definitely more to consider here than just the rudimentary arguments about always pleasing the customer or whether or not a chef has the wherewithall to make ‘decisions’ on what his paying customers should eat. I for one hate having to ask for salt and pepper. That said – tomatoes out of season suck ass whether they are ‘vine ripened’ (gassed) or not. But being spoiled Americans we want access to everything when we want it and don’t like being told no..

    The fact is – you don’t need to ship shitty tomatoes all over the frickin country. We don’t need Asparagus in November from Peru (even if it is organically grown). But we feel we are entitled. I understand there are issues with the poor workers producing these crops – but the answer is still not to buy them and be a locavore as much as you possibly can.

    From the dearly departed Gourmet Magazine – an article on tomatoes.

    http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2009/03/politics-of-the-plate-the-price-of-tomatoes

    Reply

  54. Faintly Macabre says

    I totally agree that the restaurant is the arbiter of what they serve. Don’t like what they serve, eat elsewhere. I do not agree that tomatoes have to be totally avoided 7 months out of the year, however. Yeah, OK – they’re not as perfect as they might be in the summertime, and it’s definitely not good to buy field-grown tomatoes from 2nd and 3rd world countries… but, c’mon. We have the technological ability to provide serviceable hydroponic on-the-vine tomatoes in the off-season without harming workers or raping the land. Several other people have mentioned the tropical-fruit argument, and I think the point is very valid. We can’t fly to Hawaii every time we want an in-season pineapple… To me, there’s a very fine balance between *responsible* human ingenuity (i.e. growing slightly-less-than summer-fresh, but still serviceable tomatoes) and unnecessary deprivation. It all comes down to personal choice, but personal choice shouldn’t need to be a knee-jerk reaction. Does a lack of summer tomatoes mean no BLTs in January? Bacon, lettuce (which we technically also couldn’t have) and pickled sundried tomatoes just isn’t the same…

    Reply

    • mscocinero says

      There is nothing wrong with a BLT in January. I just don’t enjoy them in January because they just don’t taste that great. My food memory allows me to revel in the pleasures of meals past, so as to clearly lack desire for mediocrity. I don’t preach against out of season foods, I simply choose in season eating because it so much more enjoyable and flavorless, dull foods are just not necessary.

      Reply

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